Curse

Garric · Jun 14, 2005, 12:22 AM // 00:22

This information is outdated. Do not use. If you need assistance please start a new thread.

Here's the deal, I would like to buy a new card for my computer at the moment. I have an LCD monitor but no DVI location, so I can't really experience my stuff in full glory, games like Guild Wars and San Andreas. Well, anyway, I'm going to go through a full 1k +++ upgrade whenever Longhorn comes out, and I don't want to bother buying new technologies like PCI-e or 64bit at the moment as they are still in their very early stages, and I'm reluctant. I have a x4 AGP motherboard, and I want to buy a card that will work with it. I am thinking either a 6800GT or the x800XL. I'm in a 200-350$ price range. Both of these cards about about $300 give or take $50 in either direction. I would like to buy one, but there are some issues, like nVidia coming out with their 7000 series. Should I stick with the new series? Should I wait till the prices of the older cards drops? Should I buy nVidia or Radeon? Keep in mind that I am going on vacation this summer so prices right now are sure to fall, as I will be gone for the next 2 months while a new generation comes out. Any experts here can help me out? I don't want to buy a new motherboard or anything, no PCIe. I'd like this card to last me for the next 2 years at least and run the next games in at least medium gfx without any problems. Also, if I get the nVidia card do I have to get some extra power or something? Or is that just a rumor?

Dirkiess · Jun 14, 2005, 12:34 AM // 00:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garric

Here's the deal, I would like to buy a new card for my computer at the moment. I have an LCD monitor but no DVI location, so I can't really experience my stuff in full glory, games like Guild Wars and San Andreas. Well, anyway, I'm going to go through a full 1k +++ upgrade whenever Longhorn comes out, and I don't want to bother buying new technologies like PCI-e or 64bit at the moment as they are still in their very early stages, and I'm reluctant. I have a x4 AGP motherboard, and I want to buy a card that will work with it. I am thinking either a 6800GT or the x800XL. I'm in a 200-350$ price range. Both of these cards about about $300 give or take $50 in either direction. I would like to buy one, but there are some issues, like nVidia coming out with their 7000 series. Should I stick with the new series? Should I wait till the prices of the older cards drops? Should I buy nVidia or Radeon? Keep in mind that I am going on vacation this summer so prices right now are sure to fall, as I will be gone for the next 2 months while a new generation comes out. Any experts here can help me out? I don't want to buy a new motherboard or anything, no PCIe. I'd like this card to last me for the next 2 years at least and run the next games in at least medium gfx without any problems. Also, if I get the nVidia card do I have to get some extra power or something? Or is that just a rumor?

What is the rest of your system Spec and is it only the Graphics card you want to change?
If your mobo only goes to AGP 4x, i wouldn't bother with the 6800GT or the x800xl.
In all honesty, if you don't intend to update the Mobo, there is no real point in getting a super card. You would probably be better off, holding on until you get back and then have a rethink.
Without AGP 8x, none of these new cards will do you any good. The best you would have to go with would probably be a Nvidia 6600gt or an ATI 9800pro/xt.

Even then though, you will have the dilemma of not having enough grunt down the road when the new games start to appear. They will run GW and SA fine, but unless you want to go the whole hog, you will find it difficult with what you are after.

And if you wanted to buy one of the newer ATI and NVidia cards when they are released, you will probably have to go PCI-e anyway, because if the power of these is anything like that shown at E3 in the Xbox 360 and P3, AGP may not be fast enough, especially not AGP x4.

There may be others out here with different opinions, and you will hear from them shortly too.

Garric · Jun 14, 2005, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkiess

What is the rest of your system Spec and is it only the Graphics card you want to change?
If your mobo only goes to AGP 4x, i wouldn't bother with the 6800GT or the x800xl.
In all honesty, if you don't intend to update the Mobo, there is no real point in getting a super card. You would probably be better off, holding on until you get back and then have a rethink.
Without AGP 8x, none of these new cards will do you any good. The best you would have to go with would probably be a Nvidia 6600gt or an ATI 9800pro/xt.

Even then though, you will have the dilemma of not having enough grunt down the road when the new games start to appear. They will run GW and SA fine, but unless you want to go the whole hog, you will find it difficult with what you are after.

And if you wanted to buy one of the newer ATI and NVidia cards when they are released, you will probably have to go PCI-e anyway, because if the power of these is anything like that shown at E3 in the Xbox 360 and P3, AGP may not be fast enough, especially not AGP x4.

There may be others out here with different opinions, and you will hear from them shortly too.

Well, right now here are my specs:

Crappy Brandless Mobo, x4 AGP.
Amd Sempron 2200+
Radeon 9800SE softmodded to a regular 9800.
1 Gig of Ram.

I don't really want to bother with upgrading big time at all, and I'd like to keep the motherboard. If I upgrade my motherboard right now, that will mean I will need a new processor and most likely new ram, and I'm not ready for a big upgrade like that, and I don't want to half-ass it and know that I am going to buy better parts next year anyway. Is there a way for me to just upgrade my card and chill with it until Longhorn comes out? I don't have DVI, for one thing, that I need for my LCD screen, and my GTA SA has some serious frame rate problems because my card is too weak.

Also, on another note, does AGPx4 vs x8 even matter? My Radeon 9800SE is a x8 card but it runs at x4, though I can't really compare and contrast agains anything.

Dirkiess · Jun 14, 2005, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garric

Well, right now here are my specs:

Crappy Brandless Mobo, x4 AGP.
Amd Sempron 2200+
Radeon 9800SE softmodded to a regular 9800.
1 Gig of Ram.

I don't really want to bother with upgrading big time at all, and I'd like to keep the motherboard. If I upgrade my motherboard right now, that will mean I will need a new processor and most likely new ram, and I'm not ready for a big upgrade like that, and I don't want to half-ass it and know that I am going to buy better parts next year anyway. Is there a way for me to just upgrade my card and chill with it until Longhorn comes out? I don't have DVI, for one thing, that I need for my LCD screen, and my GTA SA has some serious frame rate problems because my card is too weak.

Also, on another note, does AGPx4 vs x8 even matter? My Radeon 9800SE is a x8 card but it runs at x4, though I can't really compare and contrast agains anything.

With the LCD, is it you can't use it, or you just can't use DVI? If it's you just can't use it, due to it only having DVI, there are adapters to enable you to connect to the older VGA connectors.

With regards to the AGP issue. Imagine a 4 lane and 8 lane highway.
The 9800 is capable of running on a 4x because it's backwards compatible.

Now imagine that a 6800GT is an 8lane wide Ferrari trying to squeeze through the 4 lanes. I think you sort of get the picture.

And yes, there is a big difference between 4x and 8x. That is the whole reason they are there. 8x enables a bigger throughput of data through the system.

As such, on your system, putting a 6800 GT or x800xl into your box, will just be a waste of money. If you don't have the rest of the system capable of keeping up with the card, then the card goes to waste, and you will still have the 4x as the bottle neck, and you will still get the crappy frame rates you have now.

It's a shame you don't know the mobo name, as it would give people an idea of the capability of that mobo.

One last thing. With your softmod for your card, have you tried turning it back to the original settings and see what happens with SA then?

Garric · Jun 14, 2005, 01:12 AM // 01:12

http://www.targetpc.com/hardware/mot...ds/soyo_k7vta/ Here I did some research and this is my motherboard. And I do see what you mean about the Ferari analogy. So.. does this mean that I am screwed?

And my LCD monitor has a DVI and a VGA support. But I have heard running at VGA mode makes your monitor looks crappy, and it shows in my games. There are wierd bugs like texture discoloration and other stuff like AA that only comes from my LCD (I did some serious tests.).

paulniswander · Jun 14, 2005, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Dirkiess is very correct. I also had a Dell with a 4x AGP slot. I tried the best grphx 4x card, but found out that One, 4x is outdated and bottlenecked my system, and Two, no vid card companies are still making cards on that technology, so the 4x cards you do have to choose from suck.

If you are looking for a solid, stable mobo that is low cost, do some research and you will find many. I use an ASrock, and i love it. I paid 40 dollars and it is prescott ready, dual channal ddr ready, build in 10/100 lan, AGP 8x, even has a passable audio codec. And there's lots of mobo's like this. You wont have to spend much money.

Hope this helps.

Garric · Jun 14, 2005, 01:29 AM // 01:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulniswander

Dirkiess is very correct. I also had a Dell with a 4x AGP slot. I tried the best grphx 4x card, but found out that One, 4x is outdated and bottlenecked my system, and Two, no vid card companies are still making cards on that technology, so the 4x cards you do have to choose from suck.

If you are looking for a solid, stable mobo that is low cost, do some research and you will find many. I use an ASrock, and i love it. I paid 40 dollars and it is prescott ready, dual channal ddr ready, build in 10/100 lan, AGP 8x, even has a passable audio codec. And there's lots of mobo's like this. You wont have to spend much money.

Hope this helps.

But then I will probably have to buy a new CPU and New Ram. My CPU is so outdated I don't think that any card that comes with x8 AGP will use my Sempron. Same with RAM. But then, I am essentially buying an whole new system, which will probably be pretty poor. Get my dillema?

Vertical_Zer0 · Jun 14, 2005, 01:35 AM // 01:35

Any idea what speed your memory is? As long as it's DDR (which it probably is) then you could make do with it for a while even if you get the new board/cpu.

Mo/R9 · Jun 14, 2005, 01:45 AM // 01:45

Ok, newsflash.

The expected specs for decent Longhorn operation are going to be somewhat as follows:

4-8GB RAM
100GB HDD
5-6Ghz 64 bit Processor
1GB PCIE Video Card.

Source: APC Magazine.

Now, that is the MINIMUM specification. If you want to bother considering the prices, go ahead, but IMHO it is outside your budget by a long shot.

EDIT: Having said that, I would suggest saving up for TBO (the big upgrade for Longhorn) OR getting a decent graphics card now and pass for a bit on TBO.

Vertical_Zer0 · Jun 14, 2005, 01:51 AM // 01:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mo/R9

Ok, newsflash.

The expected specs for decent Longhorn operation are going to be somewhat as follows:

4-8GB RAM
100GB HDD
5-6Ghz 64 bit Processor
1GB PCIE Video Card.

Source: APC Magazine.

Now, that is the MINIMUM specification. If you want to bother considering the prices, go ahead, but IMHO it is outside your budget by a long shot.

Uhm... normally I can have some patience with the technically challenged denizens of this forum (such as yourself, clearly), but this just takes the cake. First, you have absolutely NO proof of this crap. Second, it's utterly impossible to expect people to pay for (or even NEED) 4-8GB of RAM for normal computing. A 5-6ghz processor is completely out of range given that Longhorn is set to be released in 2006. A video card with 1GB of memory would also come with an outrageous price, and given that today's cards are usually 128 or 256, the 1GB idea simply falls on its face. Even the 512MB cards today carry an immense price tag.

Decent Longhorn operation eh? What is M$ doing this time? With that much hardware, the computer would cost at least $7000. Think before posting this utterly unfounded crap.

Everyone else out there, don't listen to this junk. Longhorn will run fine on your current computer (I would recommend getting at least 512mb of RAM for it, however... I recommend that for XP anyway).

Garric · Jun 14, 2005, 01:58 AM // 01:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mo/R9

Ok, newsflash.

The expected specs for decent Longhorn operation are going to be somewhat as follows:

4-8GB RAM
100GB HDD
5-6Ghz 64 bit Processor
1GB PCIE Video Card.

Source: APC Magazine.

Now, that is the MINIMUM specification. If you want to bother considering the prices, go ahead, but IMHO it is outside your budget by a long shot.

EDIT: Having said that, I would suggest saving up for TBO (the big upgrade for Longhorn) OR getting a decent graphics card now and pass for a bit on TBO.

Well that's the point, did you read my post at all? I'm going to get THE BIG UPGRADE!!!!1111one when longhorn comes out (2007???), that's why I'm looking for a decent card now, but it seems that I'm getting screwed by my x4 agp slot. Grrr.
My memory is indeed DDR, so it will probably work, but it is only 266mhz which is kind of low and I was lucky that this mobo supported it (It likes 333mhz, and in big black writing on the manual it stated "WARNING, this type of ram is UNRECCOMENDED).

Sir Skullcrasher · Jun 14, 2005, 02:04 AM // 02:04

i feel bad, cuz i got some hook up from EA which got me a new Radeon x800 xt Platinum Edition. But the problem is that i only got a 4x AGP mobo. Still, the game would look game but it running half power.

Vertical_Zer0 · Jun 14, 2005, 02:16 AM // 02:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by sir skulkcrasher

i feel bad, cuz i got some hook up from EA which got me a new Radeon x800 xt Platinum Edition. But the problem is that i only got a 4x AGP mobo. Still, the game would look game but it running half power.

It's not running half power. There is a very small difference between 4x and 8x AGP; there is perhaps a 5% difference.

Loviatar · Jun 14, 2005, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garric

But then I will probably have to buy a new CPU and New Ram. My CPU is so outdated I don't think that any card that comes with x8 AGP will use my Sempron. Same with RAM. But then, I am essentially buying an whole new system, which will probably be pretty poor. Get my dillema?

look this one over

price is good and the performance is in line with a standard 6800 (not ultra)

every reviewer says the 6600 GT is the best bang for the buck and will run todays top games at good to best settings

3 year warranty from a good company which will still be good for next years games as well

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...4122206#sctNav

Garric · Jun 14, 2005, 03:03 AM // 03:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

look this one over

price is good and the performance is in line with a standard 6800 (not ultra)

every reviewer says the 6600 GT is the best bang for the buck and will run todays top games at good to best settings

3 year warranty from a good company which will still be good for next years games as well

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...4122206#sctNav

Well, that one says it has a x4 agp right in the title, does this mean it will work well for me?

Mo/R9 · Jun 14, 2005, 04:06 AM // 04:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vertical_Zer0

Uhm... normally I can have some patience with the technically challenged denizens of this forum (such as yourself, clearly), but this just takes the cake. First, you have absolutely NO proof of this crap. Second, it's utterly impossible to expect people to pay for (or even NEED) 4-8GB of RAM for normal computing. A 5-6ghz processor is completely out of range given that Longhorn is set to be released in 2006. A video card with 1GB of memory would also come with an outrageous price, and given that today's cards are usually 128 or 256, the 1GB idea simply falls on its face. Even the 512MB cards today carry an immense price tag.

Decent Longhorn operation eh? What is M$ doing this time? With that much hardware, the computer would cost at least $7000. Think before posting this utterly unfounded crap.

Everyone else out there, don't listen to this junk. Longhorn will run fine on your current computer (I would recommend getting at least 512mb of RAM for it, however... I recommend that for XP anyway).

Ok, just because you haven't seen these things with your own eyes doesn't mean it is impossible.

Secondly, do you have any proof that it is inaccurate?

Thirdly, tests that have been done on a computer with the following specs have worked, but have been extremely slow and unreliable.

Test Computer Specifications and results:

Quote:

Originally Posted by APC Website

When loaded onto our muscle-bound test bench box — a Shuttle XPC with 3GHz Pentium 4 processor, 1GB of RAM and a 128MB Radeon 9800 Pro video card — the system was barely able to keep up with even the most basic tasks.

The article also mentioned the following:

Quote:

By the time Longhorn hits the shelves in late 2006, the average desktop processor will clock at close to 5GHz, 2GB of RAM will be considered the norm, and the fast-lane PCI Express interface will turbo-charge graphics. To put it in clearer perspective, our 3GHz Pentium 4 test machine will be two generations out of date and comparable to a 300MHz Pentium II today.

My numbers were slightly off target because I was recalling them from what I remembered after reading the article.

EDIT:

Quote:

Well that's the point, did you read my post at all? I'm going to get THE BIG UPGRADE!!!!1111one when longhorn comes out (2007???), that's why I'm looking for a decent card now, but it seems that I'm getting screwed by my x4 agp slot. Grrr.

I did read your post, but I am doubtful of the fact that you will be able to complete the upgrade in the budget you mentioned (around $1000), I may have misunderstood, so if I have, please correct me in that regard.

dargon · Jun 14, 2005, 06:33 AM // 06:33

Just as a side note, those longhorn 'requirements' have been shown conclusively (to me anyway) to be false. Lets see, there are no machines that match the reported specs in existence, so obviously it's being developed on less potent machines. Current builds of longhorn run on machines that are 1 year+ old.

momo2oo2 · Jun 14, 2005, 07:00 AM // 07:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mo/R9

Ok, just because you haven't seen these things with your own eyes doesn't mean it is impossible.

Secondly, do you have any proof that it is inaccurate?

Thirdly, tests that have been done on a computer with the following specs have worked, but have been extremely slow and unreliable.

FALSE. PERIOD.

I have tested all the LongHorn Alphas and the WinHEC pre-beta and it runs smooth on my Newcastle3000+ with 1Gb DDR400. I have even got running the new GUI that maximizes the windows in a 3Desque way.

Any test that you can read in the net can't be newer than the LH build 5048 WinHEC pre-beta, because the beta is due Summer/Fall 05.

I think you are one of those Apple-ish guy that's in fact bothered because your preferred system can't get the best games simply because they don't sell good... and have to flame in forums to relax the nerves

MaglorD · Jun 14, 2005, 08:05 AM // 08:05

I agree AGP 4x is getting a bit old. I wouldn't bother getting anything better than an ATI 9800 Pro or GF 6600.

Dirkiess · Jun 14, 2005, 10:54 AM // 10:54

With regards to your CPU, it's not that old. I have an Athlon 2400+ and it runs fine and according to the AMD website, was released around 2003.

For the price range you have quoted, you could get a nice mobo and a good card that would give you a few years worth of decent gaming and still in your budget.

This mobo from Asus
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...68#DetailSpecs

Would be a good model to go with. The reason I say that, is because it's very close to mine, only a slight difference in model number and a few specs and I haven't had a single problem with my board at all. It also has AGP 8x and is compatible with your processor and will probably take your ram too.

Then using Newegg, there is a nice selection of 6600gt cards to choose from that are under $200 with various specs. Some will be better than others due to the manufacturers, but I'm not hot on NVidia lately as I have gone the ATI route for now, but from what people have said, BFG are a good firm, mainly for good OC cards.

And you could probably get this new Mobo and GPU card for about $220-$260 depending on which card you go for. Obviously I don't know if there are taxes on top of this, as I'm from the UK and don't know how it works over there.

This would make more sense than just going for a top end card on a bottleneck mobo.

Anyway, that's my thoughts on what I think you should do, but it's down to you.